tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8793579134319513144.post5791854235080785396..comments2019-11-06T11:19:05.426-08:00Comments on r e g u l a f i d e i: John 3:5, The Patristic and Modern Interpretation.R. E. Aguirre.http://www.blogger.com/profile/03462109808396671690noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8793579134319513144.post-45921761235859889052008-06-22T18:49:00.000-07:002008-06-22T18:49:00.000-07:00Georgy, I call you brother because as Vatican II s...Georgy,<BR/><BR/> I call you brother because as Vatican II states, the Protestants are our seperated brethren in the Lord. <BR/><BR/> We view Protestants (that hold to essential Creedal doctrines) of the Church as fellow Christians, albeit with a truncated view of the Catholic faith (and hence why Catholics do not consider Protestant orders valid). <BR/>___________<BR/>R.E.A<BR/><BR/>CHRISTUS VINCIT! CHRISTUS REGNAT! CHRISTUS IMPERAT!R. E. Aguirre.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03462109808396671690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8793579134319513144.post-42177277084878985952008-06-22T17:48:00.000-07:002008-06-22T17:48:00.000-07:00Rick,I didn't mean to have a loaded question... or...Rick,<BR/><BR/>I didn't mean to have a loaded question... or did I? Perhaps it had a side of slyness to it. ;)<BR/><BR/>But I love you brother!<BR/><BR/>Now, if you don't consider me to be with in the real deal umbrella, how is it that you call me brother? Is that a kind hearted gesture or is it something else?<BR/><BR/>I will have to check on those quotes. I have an encyclopedia of the beliefs of the church fathers. So I will have to look beyond that, because I am not sure that it gives the exact writing.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your prayers my friend! Our business is going well. This month has been extraordinary. We are thinking about missions work and I am also thinking about going back to school for these very subjects.<BR/><BR/>I pray your weekend was blessed for the sake of Christ!<BR/><BR/>-g-George Weishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632714882132276803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8793579134319513144.post-80185091446398693902008-06-21T22:35:00.000-07:002008-06-21T22:35:00.000-07:00George, good to hear from you.First off, you're fi...George, good to hear from you.<BR/><BR/>First off, you're first question is a complex one and is a loaded question in many respects. In the early fathers there were two views on this question, namely the validity of the sacraments outside the Church. Those such as St. Cyprian would argue that only the sacraments performed in the Catholic Church were valid. The sacraments performed by the schismatics and heretics were void. Others such as St. Augustine would hold that sacraments performed by a Trinitarian officer (not by a heretic such as the Arians)was valid up to a certain degree (since the sacraments draw their meaning from God not the person applying it). However, Augustine is very clear that these crippled sacraments are not fully effective, since they are done outside the bounds of the One and Holy, Apostolic Catholic Church. I would say that the <I>proper</I> forms of the sacraments are done within the recognized Catholic orders, Western, Eastern, Oriental branches of Catholicism. Sacraments done outside the Church are to a certain degree valid if certain theological conditions be met, namely an "orthodox" minister (Trinitarian and Creedal). But even these "sacraments" are recognized only because of the grace of God which grants them recognition, despite their erroneous understanding. <BR/><BR/>As far as the quotes from Clement and St. Justin - I'm not really sure what the question is. If, the question is that they believed in some notion of salvation by faith alone, that's simply incorrect. If you were to give the sources of those quotations, I can quickly prove from those very works, that these fathers did not believe in some form of salvation by faith alone. <BR/><BR/>Hope this helps my friend,<BR/><BR/> You and Ashley are in my prayers,<BR/><BR/>R.ER. E. Aguirre.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03462109808396671690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8793579134319513144.post-38569703406297301182008-06-21T18:26:00.000-07:002008-06-21T18:26:00.000-07:00Brother Rick,In this perspective, if I was baptize...Brother Rick,<BR/><BR/>In this perspective, if I was baptized by soul brother southern baptists in a nearby river (which I was) am I good to go? Or does this have to be within the Catholic context? Also, what of statements such as...<BR/><BR/>"If one loves himself, he loves the Lord, and he confesses unto salvation, so that he may save his soul." -Clement of Alexandria<BR/><BR/>"If you repent of your sins, and recognize Him to be Christ, and observe His commandments, you may assert [that you have done no wrong]. For, as I have said before, the remission of sins will be yours."<BR/>-Justin Martyr<BR/><BR/>Talk to me, as I know you will brother Rick!<BR/><BR/>Love you man!<BR/><BR/>-g-George Weishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632714882132276803noreply@blogger.com